Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

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rebeljim
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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by rebeljim » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:36 am

Hagar wrote:
loophole54 wrote:Much as I want to believe the officials got it wrong, I don't see a rule stating that after a completed forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage, an incomplete backwards pass behind the line of scrimmage becomes a dead ball.
okay lets forget about the "back across the line of scrimmage" pass being legal... IT HIT THE GROUND... any pass that hits the ground is... say it with me... INCOMPLETE.... if the play stands as an incomplete pass the ball goes over on downs at the original LOS.
Once the lateral hit the ground, the ball is DEAD. But I know the SEC won't do anything about it, cause if we had won the SEC, the conference wouldn't have had a team in the playoffs. Now bama can go and hopefully win it for the conference. For those that don't think Freeze needs to make changes, Bret Bielema said in his press conference yesterday that they didn't audible one time during the whole game. So they expected certain looks from our defense and we never changed our defense.
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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by loophole54 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:19 pm

College Football Rules, rule 7, Section 2, Article 2

ARTICLE 2. a. When a backward pass or fumble is caught or recovered by any
inbounds player, the ball continues in play

The Rule then lists exceptions, including the inability on 4th down of anyone except the fumbling player to run with a fumble. If any other player touches a fumble on 4th down, it becomes a dead ball.

Unfortunately the exception to the rule appears to apply only to a fumble and not to a backwards pass.

I hate it!

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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by lewindha » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:34 pm

loophole54 wrote:College Football Rules, rule 7, Section 2, Article 2

ARTICLE 2. a. When a backward pass or fumble is caught or recovered by any
inbounds player, the ball continues in play

The Rule then lists exceptions, including the inability on 4th down of anyone except the fumbling player to run with a fumble. If any other player touches a fumble on 4th down, it becomes a dead ball.

Unfortunately the exception to the rule appears to apply only to a fumble and not to a backwards pass.

I hate it!
Sure, but once a 'backwards pass' touches the ground, does it not become a fumble?
Some Random Dude

loophole54
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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by loophole54 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:52 pm

Answer: No. An incomplete backwards pass is not a fumble.
See Rule 2, Section 11 Article 1

Fumble
ARTICLE 1. To fumble the ball is to lose player possession by any act other than
passing, kicking or successful handing (A.R. 2-19-2-I and A.R. 4-1-3-I). The status of
the ball is a fumble.

The rule doesn't differentiate between an forward pass or a backward pass. Arkansas lost possession of the ball, but it was by a pass (a "backwards pass"). Thus, it's not a fumble, and doesn't fall under the fumble exception on 4th down.

I HATE it, but I think the officials got it right.
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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by spudhog » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:33 pm

A rule i'd like them to review in the off season is the blocking down field with a pass that crosses the line. The first TD by OM in the 2nd half and another one later(or set one up) had Kelly throwing the little smoke pass out to the wr but the pass would cross the los. Most of those OM runs are legal but there were a couple that weren't close. Catching the ball literally 1.5 to 2 yards downfield.

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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by Titles 'R Us » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:44 pm

Our problem, put simply, is our defensive coordinator. If we had one that was adequate, we would never have gone to overtime. We never stopped that pass to the short side out in the flat. Not once. We were always out of position. A good coordinator will make adjustments at halftime. We should never have lost that game. The fact that Arkansas got a miracle play in overtime just makes it worse. I'm sick of hearing about this game, particularly from Arkansas fans. I want some staff changes in the off-season.

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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by rebeljim » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:55 pm

Titles 'R Us wrote:Our problem, put simply, is our defensive coordinator. If we had one that was adequate, we would never have gone to overtime. We never stopped that pass to the short side out in the flat. Not once. We were always out of position. A good coordinator will make adjustments at halftime. We should never have lost that game. The fact that Arkansas got a miracle play in overtime just makes it worse. I'm sick of hearing about this game, particularly from Arkansas fans. I want some staff changes in the off-season.
Their coach saying they didn't have to call any audibles at the LOS says it all. Wommack needs to go back to insurance. New oline coach also. Maybe Tom Allen was the one making all the adjustments last year.
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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by Titles 'R Us » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:59 pm

rebeljim wrote:
Titles 'R Us wrote:Our problem, put simply, is our defensive coordinator. If we had one that was adequate, we would never have gone to overtime. We never stopped that pass to the short side out in the flat. Not once. We were always out of position. A good coordinator will make adjustments at halftime. We should never have lost that game. The fact that Arkansas got a miracle play in overtime just makes it worse. I'm sick of hearing about this game, particularly from Arkansas fans. I want some staff changes in the off-season.
Their coach saying they didn't have to call any audibles at the LOS says it all. Wommack needs to go back to insurance. New oline coach also. Maybe Tom Allen was the one making all the adjustments last year.
I totally agree, Jim. I think Allen was the man. Make him an offer he can't refuse. Wommack is over the hill--had to be asleep at the wheel throughout the entire Arkansas game. Freeze can't go with the status quo, or he's not the coach we thought he was.

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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by fenderman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:39 pm

This game should not have been close. The D was not ready to play. Of course we will not get any help from SEC refs that don't want the SEC out of playoffs.

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Re: Seeing where the 4th down play was illegal

Post by GtownRebel » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:31 am

spudhog wrote:A rule i'd like them to review in the off season is the blocking down field with a pass that crosses the line. The first TD by OM in the 2nd half and another one later(or set one up) had Kelly throwing the little smoke pass out to the wr but the pass would cross the los. Most of those OM runs are legal but there were a couple that weren't close. Catching the ball literally 1.5 to 2 yards downfield.
The rule is that the OL can block 2 yards past the LOS. The officials in every game I have seen year (in and out of the SEC) aren't calling it as it is hard to determine where the LOS is once the play is in motion. Just saying it is tough.

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