Ole Miss Basketball Budget

[carl winslow]

Here is a link from Veazey on our basketball budget.

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/2011/ ... m=facebook

This should answer the questions of why can't we build a winning basketball program. I know everyone wants to increase this number, but how will we do this? What other athletic/educational programs do we take from?

[oxpatchreb]

I know everyone wants to increase this number, but how will we do this? What other athletic/educational programs do we take from?

This mentality is part of the problem. We don't have to "take from other athletic/educational programs" to improve/spend more money on basketball.

If Boone would spend half the effort and time on freakin fund raising as he does on micromanaging our coaches, budgets, marketing and gameday atmospheres, we'd have 3 times the amount of cash in our coffers and spending would NOT be a problem. There are plenty of alumni and fans our there who are willing and able to give, but handing over a couple thousand to this buffoon is akin to wiping your hind parts with it and flushing it down the toilet.

FACT.

[carl winslow]

I know everyone wants to increase this number, but how will we do this? What other athletic/educational programs do we take from?

This mentality is part of the problem. We don't have to "take from other athletic/educational programs" to improve/spend more money on basketball.

If Boone would spend half the effort and time on freakin fund raising as he does on micromanaging our coaches, budgets, marketing and gameday atmospheres, we'd have 3 times the amount of cash in our coffers and spending would NOT be a problem. There are plenty of alumni and fans our there who are willing and able to give, but handing over a couple thousand to this buffoon is akin to wiping your hind parts with it and flushing it down the toilet.

FACT.

I am actually going to disagree with you on this one.

The focus has nothing to do with the amount being donated, but what it is being donated for. The Vaught Society wasn't named after a basketball coach. Maybe we should start a Rod Barnes Society?

I agree that Boone micromanages too much, but can you blame him? I sure don't. All he has brought us is back to back Cotton Bowls, a regular winner in baseball, and I believe we tied for SEC West Champ last year in basketball. When is the last time we were doing that before he got here? The 1960s? Our past football threads are filled with messengers wanting to fire Houston Nutt and our last couple of basketball threads have been about wanting to fire Andy Kennedy. We don't have the money to fire them and pay their salaries plus a new head coach that the people that don't give money are going to want.

I don't think we would have more cash if Boone was here, or not. I know the most successful alumni from Ole Miss really don't give as much to the athletic programs as the educational programs. I would imagine they didn't become excessively wealthy because they were die hard Ole Miss football/basketball fans that gave millions to their favorite collegiate athletic teams. The money they are getting is $1000 her, $1000 there, that people donate every year for tax reasons. I don't know about your situation, but I wouldn't give Ole Miss another $1000 a year just because Pete Boone was gone or focusing on fundraising, and people sure as heck aren't lining up to give their favorite sports team money in this economy.

I guess the question is:

Would you give three times the amount you donate to Ole Miss if Pete Boone started focusing on fundraising?

[oxpatchreb]

I guess the question is:

Would you give three times the amount you donate to Ole Miss if Pete Boone started focusing on fundraising?

I would most assuredly increase my donation level if I thought, even for one second, that the money would be spent wisely. But that's because I am intimately familiar with our sports programs and Pete Boone's failures as it's leader. A good more than half our donating base does not pay close attention. They just think we're average at sports because we always have been. If we had a young, dynamic, exciting, forward thinking, planning, goal oriented AD who was out there, touring, giving speeches, throwing fund raisers, pimping our sports teams, glad handing, kissing babies, doing charity events, marketing the school, etc, then yes, those people WOULD give more money because they'd be excited about the energy and change surrounding our programs. State is a perfect example. A couple years ago they went out and found an AD who is exactly like I described above. Our disdain for the Bulldogs aside, he's got more money coming into the Ath Dept than ever before and he's using that money to one-up everything we do here. He is doing it right by-d***, why aren't we?

The OM athletic departments don't raise half the amount that the educational departments raise. That's insane. If they can do it, so can Pete. He refuses to lead the charge. He's old, tired, grumpy and set in his ways. He doesn't feel like getting out there and driving donations and spending. He just won't do it. There are people in that office who are trying, Thompson is giving it everything he has. And you can tell, because everything he has a hand in comes off polished, refined, targeted and effective. If it were up to me, he'd be AD right now.

I'm not targeting individual sports donations. I'm speaking about sports related fund raising across all sports in total. And yes, I most certainly blame Boone for micro managing. It's not good business practice and the entire world knows it. Do you think the CEO's at Exxon-Mobil, Wal-Mart, Chevron, GE, GM and Ford micro manage? Do you think they call mid to low level managers *beep* about the amount spent on Old Bill Smith's retirement party? Or how much the line manager in the Detroit plant spent when he took a potential vendor out to lunch? Or the mode of transportation used by a branch mgr to get to the convention last year? No, they don't. Boone is a terrible CEO. Just awful. And that's what we need. A young, bright, energetic Sports CEO.

Our overall Sports program spending numbers are terrible when compared to the rest of the conference. We will never have the budget of LSU, Bama, UT or UF because of the size of our school and the available populous in the State. It's just a fact. BUT, we most certainly SHOULD be out spending, State, Vandy, UK (minus basketball), USC and possibly Arky. I don't have exact figures, and I doubt they exist, but our median income for our alumni is probably a good deal more than that of the other schools I mentioned, and with that in mind, we should be SPENDING more as a school. Boone hasn't spent one second thinking about that fact, or any other fund raising facts because he's too busy replacing the coke in the vending machines with kroger brand cola.

[deadset]

^^^ You are so right bout that.^^^^ 8)

[carl winslow]

Well there is a little bit of a difference with us and State. Mississippi State is trying to move towards using sports revenue to support education while we keep our education budget and use the rest for sports. We won't be able to tell for the next 10 years which is best, but I think being sports fans we would like the model of more money towards sports.

The only problem with Mississippi State's model is that there are simply not enough revenue from fans (from the volume of fans), but seem to gaining here. On the other hand, the reason they haven't made a CBS game in the past decade is that they simply do not have the media base to support them getting a big time game, hence them being on ESPN2 for there biggest bowl game in a decade.

If you look at the NCAA tournament it is the biggest money maker for the NCAA. I think we should start participating to increase our overall revenue.

Either way, and I guess I got off on basketball for a second, I am glad we disagree on points. It makes RebelFaithful a better read. More opinions the better.

[oxpatchreb]

Well there is a little bit of a difference with us and State. Mississippi State is trying to move towards using sports revenue to support education while we keep our education budget and use the rest for sports. We won't be able to tell for the next 10 years which is best, but I think being sports fans we would like the model of more money towards sports.

The only problem with Mississippi State's model is that there are simply not enough revenue from fans (from the volume of fans), but seem to gaining here. On the other hand, the reason they haven't made a CBS game in the past decade is that they simply do not have the media base to support them getting a big time game, hence them being on ESPN2 for there biggest bowl game in a decade.

If you look at the NCAA tournament it is the biggest money maker for the NCAA. I think we should start participating to increase our overall revenue.

Either way, and I guess I got off on basketball for a second, I am glad we disagree on points. It makes RebelFaithful a better read. More opinions the better.

I can't speak to the validity of your statement about State and their budgeting strategy or ours for that matter. But if that's true, then yes. I want sports first. We've upgraded, renovated, added and improved almost every academic, residence and facility on campus in the last 10 years. The Union is still a 70's eye sore and there are probably another handful of buildings on campus which need to go/be gutted, but honestly, when viewed from an outside perspective, one cannot ignore the fact that the glaring eye sore with regard to the University as an entire package, is the embarrassing nature of our sports programs (tennis aside). Beautiful campus, great buildings, ever strengthening academics, enrollment on the rise, etc, etc, etc. Take out two Cotton Bowls, and we're in the same stagnant situation we've been in over the past 40 years. Fans of other SEC schools are 100% correct when they ask "What has Ole Miss won in the past 40 years of any consequence?" The answer is nothing. I'm not going to get into a detailed debate about postseason in Baseball, Basketball, 9 win football seasons, etc. Yes, there are brief bright spots. But when viewed as a complete sporting body of work over the last 2 decades, we're awful. Period.

I think State will GAIN the requisite fan base the more they win. Saints gear was not in high demand until something drastic happened. Katrina to start with, then a SB win and now, you see Saints garb every-freakin-where. Give state a few more successful seasons, and believe me, they'll parlay their "blue collar, everymans college" image into a powerful under dog following. And the best (or worst from our perspective) part is that their Athletic Department will be waiting for and will capitalize on that ground swell. Say what you will about their mouth breathing, pick-up trucking, pig feeding, dairy making fans. They're loyal, they're fervent and their DYING to throw victories in the faces of the fans of other SEC schools. The Athletic department KNOWS how to motivate them and galvanize them, and it's working so far.

I'm all for NCAA participation. And I'm still of the opinion that because we have the worst BB facilities PF aside) and lowest salaries in the conference, we will not be able to compete with other SEC schools for the next good/great young coaches. Think about it. There are many, many more schools with decent BB programs in better conferences across the country. The only reason you'd choose Ole Miss is because A) You have ties to us or B) No one else is calling. I'm not putting any faith in the fact that the next Bobby Knight, Huggins, Calipari, etc is going to be an OM Alum. Upgrade facilities, spend money on the program, promote it, drive attendance, provide an exciting product to sell to recruits and coaches alike, and things will get better.

I love to argue. Love it.

[done]

Given that we are essentially one season removed form the two Cotton Bowls and they were both under this coach...I don't think you "take them out" when you are judging football...I still believe that 2010 was a hiccup and an anomaly...this year will tell whether or not that is the case....I am cautiously optimistic and think that two New Years day bowls in a row is nothing to sneeze at given how few times we have had that in the last 40 years.

I am just very glad we did not panic and overreact to this season like we did to 2004 and in the heat of the moment wind up with another neanderthal dilemma.

[carl winslow]

I can't speak to the validity of your statement about State and their budgeting strategy or ours for that matter. But if that's true, then yes. I want sports first. We've upgraded, renovated, added and improved almost every academic, residence and facility on campus in the last 10 years. The Union is still a 70's eye sore and there are probably another handful of buildings on campus which need to go/be gutted, but honestly, when viewed from an outside perspective, one cannot ignore the fact that the glaring eye sore with regard to the University as an entire package, is the embarrassing nature of our sports programs (tennis aside). Beautiful campus, great buildings, ever strengthening academics, enrollment on the rise, etc, etc, etc. Take out two Cotton Bowls, and we're in the same stagnant situation we've been in over the past 40 years. Fans of other SEC schools are 100% correct when they ask "What has Ole Miss won in the past 40 years of any consequence?" The answer is nothing. I'm not going to get into a detailed debate about postseason in Baseball, Basketball, 9 win football seasons, etc. Yes, there are brief bright spots. But when viewed as a complete sporting body of work over the last 2 decades, we're awful. Period.

I think State will GAIN the requisite fan base the more they win. Saints gear was not in high demand until something drastic happened. Katrina to start with, then a SB win and now, you see Saints garb every-freakin-where. Give state a few more successful seasons, and believe me, they'll parlay their "blue collar, everymans college" image into a powerful under dog following. And the best (or worst from our perspective) part is that their Athletic Department will be waiting for and will capitalize on that ground swell. Say what you will about their mouth breathing, pick-up trucking, pig feeding, dairy making fans. They're loyal, they're fervent and their DYING to throw victories in the faces of the fans of other SEC schools. The Athletic department KNOWS how to motivate them and galvanize them, and it's working so far.

I'm all for NCAA participation. And I'm still of the opinion that because we have the worst BB facilities PF aside) and lowest salaries in the conference, we will not be able to compete with other SEC schools for the next good/great young coaches. Think about it. There are many, many more schools with decent BB programs in better conferences across the country. The only reason you'd choose Ole Miss is because A) You have ties to us or B) No one else is calling. I'm not putting any faith in the fact that the next Bobby Knight, Huggins, Calipari, etc is going to be an OM Alum. Upgrade facilities, spend money on the program, promote it, drive attendance, provide an exciting product to sell to recruits and coaches alike, and things will get better.

I love to argue. Love it.

Don't get me wrong. I definitely would like to spend the money, or get more money for our Basketball program, and football and baseball. On the other hand, I don't want our money for education to go away. Just me personally, but I would rather have gone to a school known for great education over sports. Much rather say I went to Harvard instead of Texas, Bama, or LSU, so I value growing our education over sports. I'm not saying you don't, but that is just what I put above all.

However, I do believe there is a way to do it both. It is using the assets right to produce your highest returns. I do believe there will be a way to have enough funding through athletics to support our educational system, but it isn't an easy task. I am not ready to throw Pete under the bus because it isn't only him, but started higher up than him.

I will say one thing about State fans. Ole Miss needs some of the Kool-Aid they drink. Do you realize that they could go undefeated 15 seasons in a row probably not surpass Vandy for last in the SEC All Time in football? That is amazing, and they pack out the stadium because they have a head coach that likes to talk trash to Ole Miss. I was talking to one of State's largest booster (that gave me great tickets for the SEC Tournament by the way, Row 1, Center Court) and he actually believes that not only will State run the table, but next year will win the entire thing. I want that Kool-Aid. The things I hear from these guys are absolutely amazing. They believe that Sidney is staying and losing the weight and will be the best player in the nation, but there best player is still sitting on the bench. They actually believe they will have the two best players in the nation(not including Bost) next year. They are almost .500 this year and pumped about next year.

With that being said, I don't think you are off base on saying we can raise the money. It is just easier said than done. I think the real issue will be starting with the students. Give them an incentive to go for the basketball games. North Carolina and Duke have every student at every game. I loved the idea of giving the Chris Warren beards out, but it was about 15 games too late. Once the atmosphere gets better, the alumni and boosters will get involved.

I guess the conversation should be:

What is the best point of attack? And how do we get the right people involved to make this happen?

It starts with the Alumni speaking their voice, and I believe Boone would follow. I just wonder if the Alumni would actually speak up for our basketball program.

[deadset]

Carl, you bring up some good points there. I have often wondered why our alum never really got
behind our bb team. I know a few folks that have aunts and uncles that work at the university,
and ive noticed very little debate for basketball. I want a championship in every sport. There is no
reason we couldnt have that happen in any of the big 3 sports. We have to believe in our players
and support them, all of rebel nation.

[colreb74]

Here is a link from Veazey on our basketball budget.

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/2011/ ... m=facebook

This should answer the questions of why can't we build a winning basketball program. I know everyone wants to increase this number, but how will we do this? What other athletic/educational programs do we take from?

Discontinue all funding of womens volleyball, men's lacrosse, and all intramural sports auction off all the colonel rebel mascot uniforms individually to the highest bidder, sell every authentic certified crumb of the Tad Pad on EBay, and for the basketball facility... Sell every brick needed to build it to fans and Alimni who will pay $100 per brick to have their name or the name of a dead relative on it. After they sell enough bricks to build it, call on all alumni and fans to "volunteer" to help assemble it. If course you'll have one trained guy for every 20 fans/alumni to supervise. It could be a summer project and us sure to get lots of free publicity. Charge the media to cover the story.

May sound a bit crazy, but they throw up those habitat for humanity homes with volunteers all the time, and they last just fine.

The fans/alumni get the pleasure of telling their kids/grandkids that they helped build the facility.

If we build it, athletes will come, and then donations will follow!