Question for the board

[RichmondVAReb]

I won't argue that we have returned to the era of the late 50s/early 60s yet, but it surely does look positive as we look forward to next year and thereafter. To be back to the glory days, I'm thinking we would have to return to the top 5 or 10 in the final polls, actually win/compete for West division, SEC and national championships, start beating msu annually and rule MS in recruiting. Now, if we succeeded in returning to those glory days, then I could easily foresee a campus stadium completely bowled-in and seating 75,000 and perhaps more if we can engender the kind of support in Memphis and North Mississippi like we used to have back in the 50s.

QUESTION: Back when Cutcliffe was our coach and shortly after he left, there were discussions on the various Ole Miss boards about the fact that some of our fans (some very prominent as I recall) feel that Ole Miss is just a small school who can never return to our glory days. Has Coach Nutt changed that mentality, or is that a factor that would hold us back from returning to those glory days? Based on what I've seen following our Bama game this year (our last loss), I'd say that we can return and possibly rival or perhaps even surpass the glories attained back in those long ago times. What do you think?

It is clearly discouraging to ever entertain the thought that it is not even possible for Ole Miss to ever hope to return to any sort of excellence in national prominence. In fact I don't agree that that is the case and have never felt that way, and I am sensing a very positive attitude within myself in that positive direction (no guarantees of course, but at least a possibility that we just might get it done). Is it possible for Ole Miss to return to national prominence like the glory days?

[olemissreb_30]

I have the same feeling!

[Chucky_38]

In my opinion this is the kind of thinking that got Cutcliffe fired and Nutt ran off at Arkansas. We have to be very careful not to let our expectations balloon into something unrealistic. I think we all need to step back and realize how great this season was and that it is unlikely we can duplicate this success on a regular basis. We aren't going to win 5 SEC games most years. The best we can hope for is 4-4 most years. If we go 6-6 next year it is a special season. We need to keep that mentality. Be thankful for winning seasons. Be thankful for the chance to go bowling. Don't expect anything more because that is unrealistic.

College football has changed drastically since the Vaught era. We simply have to many things stacked against us to be what we were then. We will never out recruit Bama or LSU. Those schools will continue to take who they want from our state. They have atheletic budgets of over 70 million dollars annualy. Ours is 35 million. They have bigger citites that are more attractive than Oxford. They have much more recent tradition than we do. They are national powerhouse programs that are also media darlings. We are none of those. In fact the media is not to fond of us at all most of the time. We are simply to small of a program to be anything other than a 6-8 win team. I'm happy with that because I lived through the Orgeron era. I don't want to be the joke of the SEC anymore. I'm very happy wining 6 or 7 games and going bowling. And I think we all should be.

As for bowling in the stadium...that would not make financial sense. We don't have a large enough fanbase to fill up our stadium now. This whole season we never had a crowd top 58,000. We had empty seats at every game. Truth be told we probably should not have bowled in the south endzone. But I'm glad we did because it looks cool.

I know this reads really negative. But I've thought about it for years and this is the conclusion I have come to. Trust me, you won't find someone who loves Ole Miss more than me. I wish we could be one of the big boys. But we are not. And we aren't going to be. And I'm okay with that.

[parrotreb]

I won't argue that we have returned to the era of the late 50s/early 60s yet, but it surely does look positive as we look forward to next year and thereafter. To be back to the glory days, I'm thinking we would have to return to the top 5 or 10 in the final polls, actually win/compete for West division, SEC and national championships, start beating msu annually and rule MS in recruiting. Now, if we succeeded in returning to those glory days, then I could easily foresee a campus stadium completely bowled-in and seating 75,000 and perhaps more if we can engender the kind of support in Memphis and North Mississippi like we used to have back in the 50s.

QUESTION: Back when Cutcliffe was our coach and shortly after he left, there were discussions on the various Ole Miss boards about the fact that some of our fans (some very prominent as I recall) feel that Ole Miss is just a small school who can never return to our glory days. Has Coach Nutt changed that mentality, or is that a factor that would hold us back from returning to those glory days? Based on what I've seen following our Bama game this year (our last loss), I'd say that we can return and possibly rival or perhaps even surpass the glories attained back in those long ago times. What do you think?

It is clearly discouraging to ever entertain the thought that it is not even possible for Ole Miss to ever hope to return to any sort of excellence in national prominence. In fact I don't agree that that is the case and have never felt that way, and I am sensing a very positive attitude within myself in that positive direction (no guarantees of course, but at least a possibility that we just might get it done). Is it possible for Ole Miss to return to national prominence like the glory days?

The game, recruiting and the level of support for other in-state institutions have all changed too much. We can have quite a prominent program but the development and emergence of other teams, particularly in the SEC, in the last 50 years militates against the kind of success we had in the late 50s to early 60s. I chose that time period because after 64, the winning percentage dropped considerably, and that time presumably is the "glory years." After 64, we averaged what 7-8 wins a year until 72?

If we contend for Atlanta, go once every 3 or 4, win one and have good bowl success, we will recruit well. That will mean 9+ wins a year and lead to contention for, and perhaps participation in, BCS bowls and more. We will establish a new winning way, not breathe air into a dead era, both at OM and in college football. The game is simply not the same, there is nothing to which we would return.

[fis]

I think you are in a situation with Nutt that he can consistantly field teams that are competitive. You aren't going to consistantly be in the top 2 in the SEC West, but he's gonna give you a good chance 2 out of ever 4 or 5 years to win the west and likely win it or share it once particularly with a junior and senior laden team. I like his philosphy of smash mouth power running football b/c it's the only one that I believe has a chance to win any type of championship at a middle tier program such as OM or Arkansas. You watched first hand what smash mouth looks like against a real good spread team yesterday, you watched it at gainsville this year.

I think Nutt gives you a chance but it's unrealistic to think over the next 20 years you will win the west as often as Bama or LSu, unless they get in to some poor coaching hires. You will go in to all games thinking you have a chance to win though.

[SooiePig]

It all depends on what your AD and boosters think. We were told here in AR that we would never be able to hire a "top coach." The man who told us that. . . . Arkansas AD Frank Broyles.

If there is any "we're just poor little ole (Fill in the blank)" then there won't be success. If your AD and boosters want to be competitive then you will be.

[MageeRebel425]

In my opinion this is the kind of thinking that got Cutcliffe fired and Nutt ran off at Arkansas. We have to be very careful not to let our expectations balloon into something unrealistic. I think we all need to step back and realize how great this season was and that it is unlikely we can duplicate this success on a regular basis. We aren't going to win 5 SEC games most years. The best we can hope for is 4-4 most years. If we go 6-6 next year it is a special season. We need to keep that mentality. Be thankful for winning seasons. Be thankful for the chance to go bowling. Don't expect anything more because that is unrealistic.

College football has changed drastically since the Vaught era. We simply have to many things stacked against us to be what we were then. We will never out recruit Bama or LSU. Those schools will continue to take who they want from our state. They have atheletic budgets of over 70 million dollars annualy. Ours is 35 million. They have bigger citites that are more attractive than Oxford. They have much more recent tradition than we do. They are national powerhouse programs that are also media darlings. We are none of those. In fact the media is not to fond of us at all most of the time. We are simply to small of a program to be anything other than a 6-8 win team. I'm happy with that because I lived through the Orgeron era. I don't want to be the joke of the SEC anymore. I'm very happy wining 6 or 7 games and going bowling. And I think we all should be.

As for bowling in the stadium...that would not make financial sense. We don't have a large enough fanbase to fill up our stadium now. This whole season we never had a crowd top 58,000. We had empty seats at every game. Truth be told we probably should not have bowled in the south endzone. But I'm glad we did because it looks cool.

I know this reads really negative. But I've thought about it for years and this is the conclusion I have come to. Trust me, you won't find someone who loves Ole Miss more than me. I wish we could be one of the big boys. But we are not. And we aren't going to be. And I'm okay with that.

I agree with that. College football is not the same game Especially the comment about running cut off. Our mentality as fans changed after the 04 cotton bowl. Our expectations ballooned because of Eli and that teams success. We hired a recruitor as a head coach because we believed he could get us the players to compete with LSU and Bamer and he set our program back 3 years. I hope we never get that mentality again. Some of the other comments are dead on. We have to load up to make runs at Western Division Championships every 3 to 4 years. If we average 7 wins a season over a 5 year span I would be pleased. If I ever get to watch us in Atlanta I will pee my pants.

[rewalters]

Very good thread guys, I couldn't agree more. Good to hear realistic Ole Miss (and Arkansas) fans.

Can't really add anymore to the discussion, if we can compete for the West with a chance for a possible BCS berth every four to five years then in my opinion this train is on the right track.

In the current landscape I really don't see how we as fanbase can demand more.

[mpzreb17]

From what I understand, and correct me if i'm wrong, Virginia Tech came out of nowhere and became a small(er) school with a big program and that eventually grew the school too. They consistently play in BCS bowls now, every other year maybe a little more spread out, but they had to start somewhere.

Don't expect it next year, don't expect it the year after, but after 5 years of Nutt, start wanting it, and after 10 if it isn't happening, maybe the sooie pigs of the world weren't so dumb after all.

Come on people, anything can happen to any school on any Saturday.

..But don't run him out like we did Cut. If we had kept Cut, by now we'd be there. Look what he's doing to Duke.

[Chucky_38]

From what I understand, and correct me if i'm wrong, Virginia Tech came out of nowhere and became a small(er) school with a big program and that eventually grew the school too. They consistently play in BCS bowls now, every other year maybe a little more spread out, but they had to start somewhere.

Don't expect it next year, don't expect it the year after, but after 5 years of Nutt, start wanting it, and after 10 if it isn't happening, maybe the sooie pigs of the world weren't so dumb after all.

Come on people, anything can happen to any school on any Saturday.

..But don't run him out like we did Cut. If we had kept Cut, by now we'd be there. Look what he's doing to Duke.

Frank Beamer has done a remarkable job building VT into a national player. However I think his situation is a better one than ours. First off, he has the entire state of Virginia virtually to himself. UVA doesn't steal many players away from Beamer. And no other big programs dip into their state like Bama and LSU do ours. Second, the Hokies play in the ACC. They can average recruiting classes in the 25-35 range and win the conference with that caliber of talent. We can't.

And I disagree about Cutcliffe getting us there. I think Cut would have got us back to a bowl quicker than 4 years but I don't know that he could have sustained the programs winning ways. We'll never know though. He did do an okay job at Duke this year but really, he won 4 games. 4-8 and he gets a contract extension. Maybe thats the best place for him. Somewhere that doesn't even expect to have winning seasons on a regular basis.

Again, this is just my humble opinion.

[bleuwolfe]

I won't argue that we have returned to the era of the late 50s/early 60s yet, but it surely does look positive as we look forward to next year and thereafter. To be back to the glory days, I'm thinking we would have to return to the top 5 or 10 in the final polls, actually win/compete for West division, SEC and national championships, start beating msu annually and rule MS in recruiting. Now, if we succeeded in returning to those glory days, then I could easily foresee a campus stadium completely bowled-in and seating 75,000 and perhaps more if we can engender the kind of support in Memphis and North Mississippi like we used to have back in the 50s.

QUESTION: Back when Cutcliffe was our coach and shortly after he left, there were discussions on the various Ole Miss boards about the fact that some of our fans (some very prominent as I recall) feel that Ole Miss is just a small school who can never return to our glory days. Has Coach Nutt changed that mentality, or is that a factor that would hold us back from returning to those glory days? Based on what I've seen following our Bama game this year (our last loss), I'd say that we can return and possibly rival or perhaps even surpass the glories attained back in those long ago times. What do you think?

It is clearly discouraging to ever entertain the thought that it is not even possible for Ole Miss to ever hope to return to any sort of excellence in national prominence. In fact I don't agree that that is the case and have never felt that way, and I am sensing a very positive attitude within myself in that positive direction (no guarantees of course, but at least a possibility that we just might get it done). Is it possible for Ole Miss to return to national prominence like the glory days?

Of course we can return to the top, but it will be earning new glory, not returning to the past. To achieve a new era of winning championships, we must let go of the past and all of the negativity the last 30+ years have fostered. I want to win the SECW and SECC. A bcs bowl is great, but the SECC is better in my book.

[john_avery_fast]

with the competitveness of the SEC in all things football (the games, recruiting, facilities, coaches, etc.), especially in the West division, I truly believe that becoming a program that in "bad" years still wins 6 or 7 in the regular season, with a legit shot every 3 or 4 years, depending on how the stars align, to win the West/overall SEC championship, is a doable and attainable goal. This is not to say that I don't want more, b/c I do. It is just the simple fact that the SEC is extremely hard to maintain dominance in for more than 5 or so seasons at a time (by dominance I mean considered one of or the favorite to win it) for any program, including GA, FLA, BAMA, LSU. Even those programs, even recently (within last 15 years), have had down periods. Heck, tell anyone 5 years ago that TN would be dead last in the East by 2008, and you would have gotten a strange look.

[fis]

Remember too guys that if and when you decide to start putting pressure on Nutt for a couple 6-6's in a row, you're that much closer to getting him resigned. The administration at Arkansas was very pleased with his body of work in 10 years and was not about to let him resign (if you will) after the LSU win had hogville freaks not been plotting the whole year after a 3pt road bama loss to run the program into the ground with airplane banners, full page newspaper ads, smear campaings etc.

If you look at all the SEC coaching hires in the last 30 years or so, about 75-80% of them are bust hires. Some cheated and set the program back, some did ok but bolted in the middle of the night after 3 years, some never coached a game but got too rowdy with strippers, and some just couldn't win in the league yet had successes everywhere else. Nutt proved at Arkansas he's not a bust hire. I'm of the opinion that it would be extremly hard to get a top name coach to either Arkansas or Ole miss b/c your good years are still gonna be 8-4. Lucky and/or great years will be a little better. You draw a strong east schedule and you could easily be 1-7 SEC yet be good enough to beat alot of smaller conference champs such as Kentucky did this year. Or, still be good enough that 4 or 5 plays was the difference in 3 or 4 wins. Somebody well established like Rich Rodriguez or Nick Saban is not going to jump into a situation like that. Ark got Petrino but he's still an up and comer with a poor reputation that abandoned his NFL team with games left, b/c his QB went to prison. He was just desperate to escape back to the NCAA and the SEC appealed to him. Poor omen for him and Ark and based on what I watched this year I'm predicting this will be a bust hire after 5 years tops. Just keep that in mind when you think HDN could of called a different play here, or gone for it on 4th and 1 there, or lost on a couple freak plays to Vanderbilt. Once the fanbase starts turning on him it's gonna end up a bad deal and the ones that are gonna make the most noise are the ones most out of touch with reality

[BigTrev34]

Remember too guys that if and when you decide to start putting pressure on Nutt for a couple 6-6's in a row, you're that much closer to getting him resigned. The administration at Arkansas was very pleased with his body of work in 10 years and was not about to let him resign (if you will) after the LSU win had hogville freaks not been plotting the whole year after a 3pt road bama loss to run the program into the ground with airplane banners, full page newspaper ads, smear campaings etc.

If you look at all the SEC coaching hires in the last 30 years or so, about 75-80% of them are bust hires. Some cheated and set the program back, some did ok but bolted in the middle of the night after 3 years, some never coached a game but got too rowdy with strippers, and some just couldn't win in the league yet had successes everywhere else. Nutt proved at Arkansas he's not a bust hire. I'm of the opinion that it would be extremly hard to get a top name coach to either Arkansas or Ole miss b/c your good years are still gonna be 8-4. Lucky and/or great years will be a little better. You draw a strong east schedule and you could easily be 1-7 SEC yet be good enough to beat alot of smaller conference champs such as Kentucky did this year. Or, still be good enough that 4 or 5 plays was the difference in 3 or 4 wins. Somebody well established like Rich Rodriguez or Nick Saban is not going to jump into a situation like that. Ark got Petrino but he's still an up and comer with a poor reputation that abandoned his NFL team with games left, b/c his QB went to prison. He was just desperate to escape back to the NCAA and the SEC appealed to him. Poor omen for him and Ark and based on what I watched this year I'm predicting this will be a bust hire after 5 years tops. Just keep that in mind when you think HDN could of called a different play here, or gone for it on 4th and 1 there, or lost on a couple freak plays to Vanderbilt. Once the fanbase starts turning on him it's gonna end up a bad deal and the ones that are gonna make the most noise are the ones most out of touch with reality

agree with that

[Reformed_Hog]

It all depends on what your AD and boosters think. We were told here in AR that we would never be able to hire a "top coach." The man who told us that. . . . Arkansas AD Frank Broyles.

If there is any "we're just poor little ole (Fill in the blank)" then there won't be success. If your AD and boosters want to be competitive then you will be.

TOTALLY agree, for the most part it wasnt the Fans that had Nutt removed it was the Boosters.
My girlfriend still can't stand the fact I root for OM and not Ark, she calls me a traitor and that I turned my back on Ark. My rebuttal "They turned their back on me" Sorry I don't see Ark being "Truley"sucessful for a long time to come and it won't be under BP.